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dreamnightwind

(4,775 posts)

53. This story is way bigger than Iran-Contra

Wed Jun 26, 2013, 05:19 PM

Jun 2013

and we get distracted from it at our great peril.

The surveillance apparatus they've constructed is incompatible with a functioning Democracy, in my opinion. We won't see the full consequences of its existence for some time, perhaps never, since we will have absolutely no oversight of its use. They won't tell us, under any circumstaces, who is being extorted nor to what end. But extortion, bribery, inside information, those will be the levers of power, not elections. We'll have no way to know what is going on, and no way to fix it.

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An attempted mind fuck ( otherwise known as psyops) [View all] nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 OP

There's a reason why I have a shitload of hidden posts as of late... backscatter712 Jun 2013 #1

Me too nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #2

"hero worship" dogknob Jun 2013 #15

Yup nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #16

Busy in other ways... dogknob Jun 2013 #28

And me too. calikid Jun 2013 #61

I was here. I remember it being almost entirely a matter of the content of the leak. Plame herself patrice Jun 2013 #3

But something very similar is happening now nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #5

Sorry, guess I'm not following closely enough. I'm in the middle of a bunch of stuff & patrice Jun 2013 #10

The other thing that is left are the insults... Whisp Jun 2013 #4

He doesn't matter. What has been revealed is shocking and that will remain the focus of those sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #21

A statement posited as fact sulphurdunn Jun 2013 #130

DU is a big place. One sees what one chooses to focus on. It's pretty authoritarian to generalize patrice Jun 2013 #6

"People CAN have authentically valid reasons of their differences" napoleon_in_rags Jun 2013 #9

"traitor" can be a relatively technical reference to what he did, like an "F" on a test, it doesn't patrice Jun 2013 #19

You underestimate the cynicism of long term DUers! napoleon_in_rags Jun 2013 #37

And, of course, the same could be true of Snowden opposition. They could pose here as Snowden patrice Jun 2013 #35

What you are describing is the job of the shill. zeemike Jun 2013 #60

Three card monty tavalon Jun 2013 #109

This has nothing to do with me nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #11

I should have broadened that reference to the rhetorical you. I will do so. nt patrice Jun 2013 #22

I am in total agreement with you regarding distraction siligut Jun 2013 #27

Perhaps... nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #31

Yes, you can avoid irritation, but you may also miss some solid thought siligut Jun 2013 #51

Yeah, but over the last few years I have learned that's the best course nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #52

You know what is best for you siligut Jun 2013 #58

Maybe we should start screaming about what a bastard Snowden was for outing Plame. napoleon_in_rags Jun 2013 #7

the only difference is that Snowden is libertarian MindPilot Jun 2013 #12

I would never expect DU to support a member of LP, but choosing Cheney instead? napoleon_in_rags Jun 2013 #18

All different kinds of people can have a conscience and still be wrong about something & it can patrice Jun 2013 #25

What you said scares the shit out of me. zeemike Jun 2013 #68

It was sarcasm, read it again siligut Jun 2013 #74

Oh shit now I see. zeemike Jun 2013 #85

I don't think that libertarians and liberals are always mutually exclusive. Th1onein Jun 2013 #101

"..it's not about the person, but what was revealed...pay attention to what was leaked." Dragonfli Jun 2013 #8

Yup...they must fear it can still be stopped nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #13

Excellent post dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #29

Excellent post marions ghost Jun 2013 #63

We have a real good idea of the data that will be collected siligut Jun 2013 #83

We have taken the first step nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #87

One of the reasons I want to keep good people on board siligut Jun 2013 #97

"Any ideas on how to stop it?" No, would that i did. I know how to slow it down however. Dragonfli Jun 2013 #95

Some major Silicon Valley companies might help too siligut Jun 2013 #100

They might help, but being corporations they are by definition amoral Dragonfli Jun 2013 #108

At the risk of seeming Machiavellian, that needn't be a disadvantage. sibelian Jun 2013 #115

The problem is that Corps. are Machiavellian, their efforts will always be to give themselves Dragonfli Jun 2013 #129

Social networks. reusrename Jun 2013 #107

Important Point...it works to undermind average citizens ability to organize KoKo Jun 2013 #118

better organized than 'we' are. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #131

"Private Firms & Private Contractors"...Both having access to use the information KoKo Jun 2013 #124

They need to discontinue such practices. We need regulations and enforcers to make them stop. Dragonfli Jun 2013 #127

Awesome post! nt Mojorabbit Jun 2013 #99

Well said! nt woo me with science Jun 2013 #119

K & R MindPilot Jun 2013 #14

K&R.....States that turn authoritarian always create a propaganda machine woo me with science Jun 2013 #17

It is not the first time we see this in boards. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #23

Thank you. My wording was very poor. woo me with science Jun 2013 #43

That it is...and a new stage in this nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #45

Well said "Woo." manufacturing illusion.... KoKo Jun 2013 #121

I was trained long ago to see when someone is simply changing the subject. sibelian Jun 2013 #20

Yup, that it is. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #24

Not all changes of subject are psyops/propaganda, some of that is integrative activity that may patrice Jun 2013 #26

And you continue to miss the point dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #33

Are those things more important than the topic at hand: the surveillance state Th1onein Jun 2013 #103

"simply" changing the subject, patrice. sibelian Jun 2013 #111

Snowden is not Plame Skidmore Jun 2013 #30

You also miss the point dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #34

We know. Its about Skidmore Jun 2013 #40

The issues and context are the NSA and its activities dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #42

That's not what I was accused of upthread. Skidmore Jun 2013 #50

WTF? dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #56

Of course he hasn't "made himself the story" sibelian Jun 2013 #116

Free of content. sibelian Jun 2013 #117

That is exactly the point! It matters little if the personality distractions come from psyops, Dragonfli Jun 2013 #98

Yes, what you said. - nt dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #106

And what was leaked, in part, was classified information to China/Russia. You want to talk about NSA KittyWampus Jun 2013 #32

Leaked to a newspaper in Hong Kong. Maedhros Jun 2013 #57

I don't see the difference creeksneakers2 Jun 2013 #71

It's not espionage [n/t] Maedhros Jun 2013 #75

Psyops now, but they're trying to keep the focus on the leaker Progressive dog Jun 2013 #36

I'm glad you mentioned this. Kurovski Jun 2013 #38

And control nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #39

K & R, it's a very old trick dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #41

Catch-22 nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #44

This story is way bigger than Iran-Contra dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #53

Why I call this a dictablanda nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #54

So, Snowden leaking secret info is *GOOD*, but Cheney leaking secret info is *BAD*. baldguy Jun 2013 #46

Try reading again nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #48

reading comprehension good.. frylock Jun 2013 #92

Correct, No double standard at all. sibelian Jun 2013 #112

Wrong standard. Orsino Jun 2013 #113

Yep. Game theory. hunter Jun 2013 #47

That is part of it. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #49

Snowden is more like Cheney in that scenario treestar Jun 2013 #55

I find the doggedness of some otherwise intelligent folks here on DU Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #59

Having been through the Plame affair nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #62

The bait and switch has occurred. nt LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #64

I gotta give you credit for admitting it nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #65

admitting it? LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #67

maybe you're being confused with someone else carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #80

If that is the case, my apologies. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #86

I wrote this on the matter... LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #89

My deep apologies nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #90

No problem. nt LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #91

Thank you carolinayellodog. That is very nice of you. nt LaydeeBug Jun 2013 #88

Predictable: deurbano Jun 2013 #66

K&R! Phlem Jun 2013 #69

I remember Plame very well, and this is not what happened. She was collateral damage to her husband Hekate Jun 2013 #70

Try re-reading carefully what I wrote. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #72

Plame did defend herself. She was out in the media too Skidmore Jun 2013 #84

Nadin, take a deep breath. You've been talking to me lately as though I just showed up here clueless Hekate Jun 2013 #104

I remember that nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #105

I, too, was alive in 2003-2007. cheapdate Jun 2013 #125

Yep. They did damage to us and our govt that might not be healed, ever Hekate Jun 2013 #126

K&R liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #73

All valid points. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #76

Funny seeing all of the people in this thread trying to do it Hydra Jun 2013 #77

I know. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #78

the effort to distract seems to imply that discussion fora are frightening to TPTB carolinayellowdog Jun 2013 #79

Because many fora watchers no longer watch David Gregory. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #81

K & R Well done! L0oniX Jun 2013 #82

It's human nature to oversimplify issues too felix_numinous Jun 2013 #93

Very insightful by the way nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #94

You forgot that on DU JoeyT Jun 2013 #96

Kick. (nt) Kurovski Jun 2013 #102

K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #110

You mean there's more to this than a personality cult?? wtmusic Jun 2013 #114

The propaganda machine. woo me with science Jun 2013 #120

kicking this wonderful thought-provoking thread. nt navarth Jun 2013 #122

Obfuscation Inc. ymetca Jun 2013 #123

At least you warned us this time. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #128

again with calling DUers dupes bigtree Jun 2013 #132

Well thank you... but you missed it nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #133

short sight bigtree Jun 2013 #134

Then we agree that there is a huge psy ops operation ongoing nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #135

the psyops is so deep these days that it's hard to tell what position your OWN opinion is serving bigtree Jun 2013 #136

Well this is not activism. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #137