General Discussion

johnkramer

(21 posts)

215. I understand that there a times when you have to fight.

Fri Jul 3, 2015, 04:41 PM

Jul 2015

I agree there are times, but that is not the point.

The Iraq scenario was an easy call. Of course, chaos would erupt. Everyone at the State Dept and Defense knew it--from the Secretary all the way down to the janitors. A high school student could figure that out.

The trick however, was to minimize that information to the American public. Not only that, but they had to manufacture lies, such as "Hitler revisted" and the PR firm that was hired to lie about Hussein pulling helpless babies from incubators.

Other nonsense was manufactured, such as terrorism and keeping us safe to enjoy our freedoms. All lies for slothful Americans. Your World War II scenarios are a world away from contemporary happenings.

Oh and you'll be reading this. You can't resist.

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Do you put your hand over your heart during the National Anthem? [View all] Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2015 OP

Only when I had to in school. Not since. NRaleighLiberal Jun 2015 #1

I stopped after school also. NOLALady Jul 2015 #81

Me, too. No blind patriotism here. nruthie Jul 2015 #86

I never heard of doing this in school. Cassidy1 Jul 2015 #143

No. And Ronald Reagan began that practice. You don't see any presidents doing it roguevalley Jul 2015 #183

pre Reagan, it was enough to stand Warpy Jul 2015 #227

Makes no sense. Why do I need to hold my heart to sing an old war song? immoderate Jul 2015 #231

Stopped in the 1970's GoneOffShore Jun 2015 #2

Yeah, the 60's did it for me... haikugal Jun 2015 #4

Me too, after the Time-Life photos of the My Lai massacre were published. Laffy Kat Jun 2015 #15

Same here. MuseRider Jul 2015 #182

Same with baseball games! Laffy Kat Jul 2015 #185

Sure. I'll sing the anthem too. Snobblevitch Jun 2015 #3

It's not "undemocratic"... Contrary1 Jun 2015 #27

Why? Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #57

Nothing at all to do with whether it is democratic. Ms. Toad Jun 2015 #50

Huh? Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #56

Ok, here's how I feel about it... Contrary1 Jul 2015 #59

Read my post again. Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #62

"Under God" was added to the Pledge in 1954... Human101948 Jul 2015 #67

You are not alone-it is a relief to know I am not the only one Stargazer99 Jul 2015 #156

I'm terribly sorry you had to go through that. I DO feel the same about the pledge and the anthem. BlueJazz Jul 2015 #230

Outrageous. I also don't blame you. closeupready Jul 2015 #239

As I said, it is a glorification of war (as the U.S. was fighting off an attack). Ms. Toad Jul 2015 #60

Methinks you and I would get along fabulously! Contrary1 Jul 2015 #61

Snobblevitch wrote: Cassidy1 Jul 2015 #145

You need to re-read my post. Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #160

No, I don't need to reread it. Cassidy1 Jul 2015 #165

Without the Revolutionary War Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #167

Events in 1960's changed everything for me. That's the context which continues today 2banon Jul 2015 #208

When I was a kid we celebrated Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #210

Good Ole' Red White and Blue.. 2banon Jul 2015 #213

I don't know how much romance there will be... Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #216

How do you see that? cwydro Jul 2015 #70

I was in France last year and our tour bus stopped at a restaurant somewhere on our CTyankee Jul 2015 #91

Isn't that a nice memory? I'm not sure if they still do this, but closeupready Jul 2015 #240

Read the lyrics. Ms. Toad Jul 2015 #132

It is un-Progressive. ncjustice80 Jul 2015 #68

Really? TeddyR Jul 2015 #71

Post removed Post removed Jul 2015 #152

Showing respect for the flag and the anthem Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #97

Not putting your hand over Cassidy1 Jul 2015 #153

I never claimed otherwise. Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #161

I never said you claimed it. Cassidy1 Jul 2015 #166

Then you probably should not have posted it as a reply to my post. Snobblevitch Jul 2015 #172

HA! I am SOOOOO over everything! I don't watch baseball so I became ill... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jun 2015 #5

What? thought they've been play GBA for a century? or may just NYC. nt Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2015 #21

Wut? Everyone for a century sings "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jun 2015 #28

duh. wow..I think must have had Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2015 #43

I hate it so much, I always head to the bathroom for the 7th inning stretch. alarimer Jul 2015 #77

Really? Cassidy1 Jul 2015 #146

Yes, you are not to leave your seat unless there is a break in the action. alarimer Jul 2015 #171

yes Skittles Jun 2015 #6

Indeed Sgt! Glassunion Jun 2015 #10

So the antics/crimes of Bush and us killing people not affect your thinking at all? Not Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2015 #23

The "antics/crimes of Bush and us killing people" TeddyR Jul 2015 #72

agree 100% NM_Birder Jul 2015 #94

I agree 100% leftynyc Jul 2015 #98

+1 Glassunion Jul 2015 #188

I never have Peregrine Jun 2015 #7

That's what I was taught in school. Mister Ed Jun 2015 #13

That is what I was taught too. nt Live and Learn Jun 2015 #40

I think those are the rules. immoderate Jul 2015 #103

Taught the same. DawgHouse Jul 2015 #119

I do. while I think the patriotic ritual and obligatory "yay troops!" is pretty petronius Jun 2015 #8

The military actually pays the NFL Cassidy1 Jul 2015 #148

Sorry, visceral reaction because we lost our mind after 9/11... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jun 2015 #9

? Skittles Jun 2015 #12

As have I, Skittles, and I salute you for it. 11 Bravo Jul 2015 #126

when I lived in England, I stood when they played God Save the Queen Skittles Jul 2015 #137

It's a matter of respect, and honoring an ideal pinboy3niner Jul 2015 #144

CORRECT Skittles Jul 2015 #149

+1 DashOneBravo Jul 2015 #217

No. It's not necessary... ms liberty Jun 2015 #11

Uh, no. Never have. NV Whino Jun 2015 #14

just curious...why? I find myself at big events where I am the only one not. nt Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2015 #24

It was never expected when I was a kid NV Whino Jul 2015 #89

I am the president of the Marana Democratic club and the Sunflower Democratic Club OffWithTheirHeads Jun 2015 #16

Perhaps you can take a different perspective CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #211

No. That's not something I ever did. City Lights Jun 2015 #17

I usually just stand, and feel a little uncomfortable at that. Alkene Jun 2015 #18

Embarrassing armpit stains? jberryhill Jun 2015 #30

No bigwillq Jun 2015 #19

Sometimes....other times no. Just depends on if I'm wearing a hat or not. ileus Jun 2015 #20

yes.. Liberal_in_LA Jun 2015 #22

Nope. And why the hell is the anthem played at sporting events? Arugula Latte Jun 2015 #25

Yep. The whole thing is creeptacular in 2015. HughBeaumont Jul 2015 #117

I do shenmue Jun 2015 #26

No. Never have Spirochete Jun 2015 #29

No. Not for a long time now. pscot Jun 2015 #31

I will stand at attention...at least no slouching GP6971 Jun 2015 #32

No; I sing. elleng Jun 2015 #33

Post removed Post removed May 2016 #242

The American fascination with the Anthem and the pledge are signs of fascism. guillaumeb Jun 2015 #34

What fascination? leftynyc Jul 2015 #100

My point was the obsession with symbolic demonstrations of patriotism. guillaumeb Jul 2015 #121

of course I do grasswire Jun 2015 #35

Yes. Stand up, hat (if any) off, hand over heart. nt kelly1mm Jun 2015 #36

people put too much value on symbolism particularly conservatives. craigmatic Jun 2015 #37

I won't even stand up. Luminous Animal Jun 2015 #38

wow very ballsy n t Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2015 #44

In my case, it is very ovaries-y. I stopped standing when I was 12 years old to protest the Viet Nam Luminous Animal Jun 2015 #46

I applaud you. you must be stronger than Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2015 #48

I do. 840high Jun 2015 #39

I always place my hand over my heart. dem in texas Jun 2015 #41

I don't equate it to the brave people Laura PourMeADrink Jun 2015 #47

YES ! olddots Jun 2015 #42

Yes. Only time I didn't was when I was in Uniform. Then, I saluted. nt stevenleser Jun 2015 #45

Same. linuxman Jul 2015 #63

Nope. Ms. Toad Jun 2015 #49

Without fail, whenever I hear the anthem played, my mind will wander to this... Contrary1 Jul 2015 #58

Are We Democrats Not True Americans? CajunBlazer Jun 2015 #51

This is an outstanding post TeddyR Jul 2015 #73

great post - from another vet DrDan Jul 2015 #75

Same here DashOneBravo Jul 2015 #218

I Stopped Doing It In the Early 70's ProfessorGAC Jul 2015 #78

Really? CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #113

Your Cites Are Reinforcing My Opinion ProfessorGAC Jul 2015 #122

Gestures are only meaningless... CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #155

No, that is not the section in question. Cassidy1 Jul 2015 #164

Oh, it's a law alright.... CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #170

It does not include enforcement provisions. johnkramer Jul 2015 #176

You are absolutely right CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #194

Sorry, no hand over the heart, jingo jango for me. Darb Jul 2015 #92

Please see my reply in Post #113 n/t CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #115

Great post leftynyc Jul 2015 #102

Bush was just the impetus - As long as our country is killing innocents ) I will not Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #139

I think this is a good point. Cassidy1 Jul 2015 #150

I quit years ago SCantiGOP Jun 2015 #52

I never stopped. I'm not a "fair-weather" type of person in any respect. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #53

I like that sentiment nil desperandum Jul 2015 #96

Drops mic..walks off stage. Inkfreak Jul 2015 #133

I'll never understand the dropped mic thing! lol n/t cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #135

I don't for the pledge either & have become your friends with other non hand over heart people too. uppityperson Jul 2015 #54

Stopped saluting in 1965. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2015 #55

No. Grey Jul 2015 #64

I never have. Blue_In_AK Jul 2015 #65

I'm usually grabbing another beer. PeteSelman Jul 2015 #66

Do you put your hand over your heart during the National Anthem? Hayduke Bomgarte Jul 2015 #69

People would think I was weird if I did that... Violet_Crumble Jul 2015 #74

No. I Don't ProfessorGAC Jul 2015 #76

always n/t chillfactor Jul 2015 #79

Mostly no. alarimer Jul 2015 #80

I fold my arms and put on my grouchy face Man from Pickens Jul 2015 #82

I bet you're fun at Christmas. tavernier Jul 2015 #125

I can be, for the right price Man from Pickens Jul 2015 #159

omg roflmao Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #224

Yes, and feel totally guilty if I don't when the flag passes by in the Memorial Day parade. woodsprite Jul 2015 #83

Nah, but I didn't do it to be cool The2ndWheel Jul 2015 #84

I'm a veteran; I stand at attention. Half-Century Man Jul 2015 #85

According to the flag code...... CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #112

That's a relatively recent change (October 2008) pinboy3niner Jul 2015 #124

I'm not sure if it is a recent change or not.... CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #169

Same Here DustyJoe Jul 2015 #205

Perhaps it's time to rewrite the Pledge. GoneOffShore Jul 2015 #87

No. LWolf Jul 2015 #88

Yes, absolutely . nt clarice Jul 2015 #90

absolutely, .......also take your hat off, .....sing it or be quiet. NM_Birder Jul 2015 #93

Great post! Texasgal Jul 2015 #187

Excellent Post! CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #195

"I didn't know that some believe that hatred of our country is a prerequisite Contrary1 Jul 2015 #199

Maybe "hatred" is too strong a word CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #200

Yeah TeddyR Jul 2015 #209

- 1 Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #223

Bah bye again. You are not a dem and not liberal - don't think this is really Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #222

Well, you don't know what you don't know... CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #226

Wow. No, don't know you. All any of us can judge by are the comments you have made Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #235

Bah bye Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #220

- 1 Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #219

Great post A--Number 1 nt Freelancer Jul 2015 #232

Yes, I do davidpdx Jul 2015 #95

I stand at the position of attention (like I did when I was in the army) Victor_c3 Jul 2015 #99

Same here. In the Corps they told us to stand at attention in civvies Recursion Jul 2015 #107

I do the same. nt hack89 Jul 2015 #109

Nope Kelvin Mace Jul 2015 #101

I put mine over someone else's heart jberryhill Jul 2015 #104

Yep. raouldukelives Jul 2015 #105

In the military I got in the habit of standing in attention and never went back to hand over heart Recursion Jul 2015 #106

I have a beer in one hand and hotdog in the other NightWatcher Jul 2015 #108

Nope. Not sure that I ever have. Iggo Jul 2015 #110

Right hand over heart, hat in left hand. Throd Jul 2015 #111

Never have...no reason to start, or stop Horse with no Name Jul 2015 #114

I do. NCTraveler Jul 2015 #116

I stand respectfully, hat off if necessary, and that's about it. HughBeaumont Jul 2015 #118

Not if it's on TV. KamaAina Jul 2015 #120

Now that's funny !!! KA Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #140

Yes, in public. tavernier Jul 2015 #123

The only time I've actually heard anyone sing it, Jamastiene Jul 2015 #127

+1 Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #141

Yes. tymorial Jul 2015 #128

NO. Hands at small of my back. benld74 Jul 2015 #129

No. AngryOldDem Jul 2015 #130

Nope, i just stand n/t shanti Jul 2015 #131

Yea, it doesn't bug me. (nt) Inkfreak Jul 2015 #134

Not usually asturias31 Jul 2015 #136

Very well said! n/t CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #157

Yes. hay rick Jul 2015 #138

Sometimes I Do Liberal_Dog Jul 2015 #142

If I'm watching on TV, Jamaal510 Jul 2015 #147

Some People Give Me Grief, But I Have To Say... ChiciB1 Jul 2015 #151

I would not give you grief. Cassidy1 Jul 2015 #154

Thanks, Many I Know Disagree... ChiciB1 Jul 2015 #174

Let down by whom? CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #158

The country is not providing you the right to sit. Cassidy1 Jul 2015 #162

I think we are parsing words here CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #173

That is not the meaning of the word parsing. johnkramer Jul 2015 #181

You need to spend some time with some good histrory books CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #191

You need to spend some time with good common sense. johnkramer Jul 2015 #193

It is obvious you haven't read my post CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #196

If I did not read it, then I would have not been able to point out the logical fallacies. johnkramer Jul 2015 #198

Give me a break please CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #201

It's a good thing that the British and Russians did not cave like you. johnkramer Jul 2015 #206

One more time only CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #214

I understand that there a times when you have to fight. johnkramer Jul 2015 #215

The Imperial Japanese didn't even take Hawaii when they had the chance Art_from_Ark Jul 2015 #197

I agree.... CajunBlazer Jul 2015 #202

There Ya Go... n/t ChiciB1 Jul 2015 #175

I do not. lovemydog Jul 2015 #163

No B Calm Jul 2015 #168

No. And I've stopped singing as well. mnhtnbb Jul 2015 #177

I will stand but not sing, not pledge, no hand over heart. Paper Roses Jul 2015 #178

How can the star spangled banner yet wave o'er the land of the free... iscooterliberally Jul 2015 #179

But sitting doesn't change that. Freelancer Jul 2015 #233

No, sitting doesn't change anything. iscooterliberally Jul 2015 #237

I generally stand at attention snpsmom Jul 2015 #180

No. I was taught to do it during the pledge, then take it down when singing the anthem. ancianita Jul 2015 #184

No. Boomerproud Jul 2015 #186

true dat B Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #225

Yes. Yes indeed. Glassunion Jul 2015 #189

When Ice Cube sings nilesobek Jul 2015 #190

No, and can't remember when I stopped. mountain grammy Jul 2015 #192

Nope. If I say the pledge, and as an adult it's only been a couple of brewens Jul 2015 #203

Flag etiquette Beartracks Jul 2015 #204

No I don't. i stopped in 1968. 2banon Jul 2015 #207

No I don't IVoteDFL Jul 2015 #212

Yes, and also during the Pledge. ladyVet Jul 2015 #221

No, I stand at attention tularetom Jul 2015 #228

No... malokvale77 Jul 2015 #229

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jul 2015 #234

"And yes, if I knew you, I would think less of you from then on" is the Laura PourMeADrink Jul 2015 #236

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jul 2015 #238

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #241

I can't remember the last time I attended anything where it was played. tanyev May 2016 #243

Surely surely if you live in Texas?? they have prayers before cake sales nt Laura PourMeADrink May 2016 #244