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Men's Group
In reply to the discussion: So, why are all of the women I meet out of my league? And usually unavailable. [View all]klook
(12,892 posts)15. Don't think about "Leagues" at all.
Sorry, coming late to this thread, but this is crucial.
I suggest you get a copy of The Art of Loving by Erich Fromm. Fromm was a profound influence on me and my thinking about relationships. He writes about different kinds of love, not just erotic/romantic love.
This passage from the foreword is a good indication of Fromm's thinking:
This book...wants to show that love is not a sentiment which can be easily indulged in by anyone, regardless of the level of maturity reached by him. It wants to convince the reader that all his attempts for love are bound to fail, unless he tries most actively to develop his total personality, so as to achieve a productive orientation; that satisfaction in individual love cannot be attained without the capacity to love one's neighbor, without true humility, courage, faith, and discipline. In a culture in which these qualities are rare, the attainment of the capabity to love must remain a rare achievement. Or--anyone can ask himself how many truly loving persons he has known.
Fromm writes from a broad perspective: Although his training was in psychiatry and psychology, he draws on Taoism, Indian philosophy, Western philosophy, and other sources for inspiration. (There is some material about love of God, too, but it's not heavy-handed.)
To me, some of Fromm's most enlightening ideas come in the section of the book called "Love's Disintegration in Western Society." He writes that in western capitalist societies, all things -- including individuals -- become commodities. When we conform to this system in every aspect of our lives (which most of us do without even realizing it), we "market" ourselves to potential partners and start thinking of ourselves (and partners) as products with a value on the love market. Witness the proliferation of references to women as "10s" or "6s," etc., and to men as "alphas," "betas," "Mr. Right," and so on. Even beyond "hotness" scales or class distinctions, there's the sense that we're each in some "League" or other and women are either "out of our league," available to us, or beneath us.
"Automatons cannot love," writes Fromm. "They can exchange their 'personality packages' and hope for a fair bargain." He describes and refutes several variations of pathological "love" -- neurotic love, sentimental love, the "egotism a deux of a "two-against the world" kind of love, etc.
Don't despair, though! Despite all this talk about what is wrong with predominant Western models of love, Fromm offers this:
Love is possible only if two persons communicate with each other from the center of their existence, hence if each one of them experiences himself from the center of his existence. Only in this 'central experience' is human reality, only here is aliveness, only here is the basis for love. Love, experienced thus, is a constant challenge; it is not a resting place, but a moving, growing, working together; even whether there is harmony or conflict, joy or sadness, is secondary to the fundamental fact that two people experience themselves from the essence of their existence, that they are one with each other by being one with themselves, rather than by fleeing from themselves. There is only one proof for the presence of love: the depth of the relationship, and the aliveness and strength in each person concerned; this is the fruit by which love is recognized.
The essential message of this book -- and I think it's a wise one -- is that we must first love ourselves (self-affirmation, not narcissism), and that, paradoxically, our strength as individuals and independence make it possible for us to truly love another.
One last quote for you from this great book:
In contrast to symbiotic union, mature love is union under the condition of preserving one's integrity, one's individuality. Love is an active power in man; a power which breaks through the walls which separate man from his fellow men, which unites him with others; love makes him overcome the sense of isolation and separateness, yet it permits him to be himself, to retain his integrity. In love the paradox occurs that two beings become one and yet remain two.
Best of luck to you, Denninmi -- don't put yourself down. Just be the best person you can and socialize a bit, and you'll meet somebody you can have a good relationship with. It happened to me.
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So, why are all of the women I meet out of my league? And usually unavailable. [View all]
Denninmi
Jan 2013
OP
I think socialization in general once you get into your 40s gets more challenging.
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2013
#11
Christ, man, I'd think the cooking *alone* would make you some friends.
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2013
#17
I'm sure you realize it's probably better to start with someone who's more available-
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2013
#19
please don't be that guy who stares *keeps noticing* particular girls in the gym
bettyellen
Jan 2013
#20
Ha ha, yes. Maybe if you're a gym rat it'll work. But it's like the beach, women are often a bit
bettyellen
Jan 2013
#22
I've noticed that the *noticing* is not confined to any particular gender, myself.
Warren DeMontague
Feb 2013
#24