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Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
14. I just wanted to see someone make an effort for rebuttal
Thu May 12, 2016, 10:16 PM
May 2016

Instead of "MUUUU, A PERSON I DISLIKE, SO IT'S ALL WRONG, MUUUUU"

Intellectual rigor, guys.

1) She does not argue that htey are treated equally bad in both nations. Only that both nations mistreat thir minority populations.

2) As I've shown often enough, Israel has never been invaded. It has fought off nations attempting to reclaim territory that it occupies, but Israel's borders have not been crossed by an invading force.

3) Again, she is not saying Saudi Arabia's Islamic govenrment and Israel's Jewish chauvinism are identical. She's saying that the respective religions have a active, government-sponsored hand in things that fuck people over.

4) In the sense that both are exporting methods of violent rtepression? Yes. Did you read hte article, and what it says? You seem to be working really hard to be ignorant of its contents.

5) True, though she brings up a salient point - both Israel and Saudi Arabia are putting hteir all in to scuttle any thaw between the US and Iran. More Saidi Arabia on that score, and I'm of mind that ISrael's interest in Iran comes mostly from their under0the-table hand-holding with hte saudis.

6) First off, el-Sisi seized power in a violent coup. When the military barges into the legislature, seixes hte president, murders thousands of Cairenes, rapes protestors, jails journalists, and tortures the political opposition in secret prision while a general appoints himself president, that's called a violent coup. And yes, ISrael did give their moral support to el-Sisi. The only "BS" in her claim is the notion that Egypt's collusion with Isrel to fuck Gaza is a new thing under el-Sisi. Mubarak did it too, and so did Morsi. Funny thing, those treaty obligations. You.. .do know that Gaza's borders are part of the Egypt-Israel treaty, right? Maybe not, you don't know that a military junta seizing power from an elected govenremtn and murdering its opposition is a coup...

7) Medea actually sources hte claim of Israel aiding wounded al-Nusra fighters. Also there's the plain reality that any action against Damascus directly strengthens the next most powerful force - which happens to be al-Nusra. and Israel has a habit of running operations against Syrian forces and movements in Syria. So.. there is direct aid, and there is indirect aid. You can note that it makes no sense for Israel to help nutbag wahhabists next door... but then I'd have to point out that Israel funded and armed Hamas back in the day, in the hopes of knocking over the PLO. Israel's got a track record, basically.

8) She - again - does not say that imprisonment and beheading are the same. That's you, and the game YOU'Re playing, Oberliner. She's illustrating that both nations see children as "fair targets" of their oppression.

9) Actually, no, not every country has a lobby group in the US. Most seem to feel that diplomatic ties are functional enough, and hardly have the sort of money and desperate interest in what Americans think of them as Saudi Arabia and Israel do. Possibly because unlike Israel and Saudi Arabia, most other nations are not completely and utterly dependent on American largess to function or even exist. Those other nations which have lobby groups are certainly nowhere near as successful and influential as these two nations, either, so bringing them up is sort of like Dubya's "you forgot poland!" line. No, it's just not relevant to the topic.

10) Yup.

So, it seems that all your complaints... are things you want her to have said, that she didn't actually say. Primarily in the sense of equating things that she never actually equated/ Drawing parallels is not saying "THESE ARE EXACTLY THE SAME," only that they have similar qualities. More stems from your own lack of understanding of what's going on - you don't know what a coup is, you're studiously unaware of Israeli involvement in Syria, and you somehow have the notion that AIPAC and the Albanian-American Civic League are on equal footing.

I think her conclusion is pretty spot-on:

Some say it is good for Israel and Saudi Arabia to bury the hatchet and find common ground. But peace in the Middle East will not be furthered by Israeli-Saudi collaboration. Israel has to make peace with the Palestinians; Saudi Arabia has to come to terms with Iran. Otherwise, Saudi-Israeli collusion will only be a fatal embrace that causes more heartbreak for the region.
Medea Benjamin? Really? Seriously? King_David May 2016 #1
Sometimes it's good to know what the crazies think. n/t aranthus May 2016 #2
Fine sign that you have no useful rebuttal to the points raised. Scootaloo May 2016 #4
That's because it's BS on its face to all but the haters. aranthus May 2016 #5
Everything I read in this group is from some heavily biased nutball or another Scootaloo May 2016 #6
Not from participants who attend Holocaust Denying conferences in Iran... shira May 2016 #8
You are smart enough to see the game Medea is playing, I would think oberliner May 2016 #12
I just wanted to see someone make an effort for rebuttal Scootaloo May 2016 #14
Remember, the title of the piece is "10 Ways Israel is Just Like Saudi Arabia" oberliner May 2016 #16
Yes, 10 ways Bernie Sanders is just like Donald Drumpf would be the best rebuttal here. shira May 2016 #22
I hear Trump is very popular in Israel-Bernie not so much end of story azurnoir May 2016 #36
Hillary would win over Trump in Israel. In America, maybe not. End of story. n/t shira May 2016 #40
would she? most Israeli's feel Trump would do better with Bibi azurnoir May 2016 #43
She is not credible King_David May 2016 #53
Apparently we need to break down David Duke's clownish arguments now.... shira May 2016 #54
Well thought out. thank you. Scary that so many people argue the opposite MariaThinks May 2016 #52
I wouldn't bother if Donald Trump wrote it either. nt King_David May 2016 #13
I don't think Donald Trump can write. Scootaloo May 2016 #15
The poster should be ashamed 6chars May 2016 #3
The poster said "godspeed" to terrorists so this OP is par for the course. n/t shira May 2016 #7
Come on. Quit being so lazy and at least provide a link... Purveyor May 2016 #9
Palestinian woman stabs Israeli man in Jerusalem, is shot oberliner May 2016 #11
so apparently you consider "Palestinians" to be terrorists? Because that's what the comment said azurnoir May 2016 #29
Poster seemed to be wishing "godspeed" in response to a Palestinian stabbing an Israeli civilian oberliner May 2016 #30
he said it reference to Palestinians attitude towards Israeli apartheid policies in the West Bank azurnoir May 2016 #31
LoL at your covering for another DU's support of terror vs. Israelis. n/t shira May 2016 #33
The OP it was posted in response to was: "Palestinian woman stabs Israeli man in Jerusalem, is shot" oberliner May 2016 #35
yes it was but the comment made no reference to that only to the feelings in general of Palestinians azurnoir May 2016 #37
What was the "Sounds like..." in reference to? oberliner May 2016 #41
the overall atmosphere over East Jerusalem at least that's how I read it azurnoir May 2016 #44
You think anyone takes that excuse you give for a poster supporting terrorism against Jews serious? King_David May 2016 #46
So now that a link was provided leftynyc May 2016 #19
What is there to say. My statement is clear and self explanatory. nt Purveyor May 2016 #24
Yes, leftynyc May 2016 #25
Where does godspeed to terrorists fit with the Democratic Party? 6chars May 2016 #27
No idea leftynyc May 2016 #32
It fits with extremist right wing bigots, King_David May 2016 #47
10 Ways Palestine Is Just Like Saudi Arabia oberliner May 2016 #10
Well done (n/t) leftynyc May 2016 #20
Interesting OP, but I think a better comparison would be with Apartheid South Africa in the occupied Little Tich May 2016 #17
Interesting? It's written by an unhinged liar who attended Iran's.... shira May 2016 #18
How about apartheid laws of Islam? elljay May 2016 #28
For me, a democratic political system is necessary for creating an Apartheid system. Little Tich May 2016 #45
Apartheid denial. That's why you ignore/deny Lebanese Apartheid vs. Palestinians.... shira May 2016 #50
Are you posting in the right thread? Little Tich May 2016 #56
Stay on topic. It's about Apartheid vs. Palestinians.... shira May 2016 #59
I thought the OP was about comparing Israel with Saudi Arabia. Little Tich May 2016 #65
You brought up S.Africa and I commented on that. shira May 2016 #67
Anyone who takes this leftynyc May 2016 #21
We are witnessing again what irrational hate has looked like for centuries.... shira May 2016 #23
They take it seriously because Jews are involved... King_David May 2016 #60
...and then some. 2naSalit May 2016 #26
Really? Here are many ways Bernie Sanders is just like Don Drumpf.... shira May 2016 #34
better yet what do you think? especially considering Trumps popularity in Israel vs Bernie's azurnoir May 2016 #38
The point is the OP is crap. And Israelis prefer Hillary over Drumpf. Next! n/t shira May 2016 #39
it's pretty much neck and neck for the 2 and Israeli's feel Trump would do better with Bibi azurnoir May 2016 #42
Piss poor attempt to change the topic about what that filth wrote about Bernie. King_David May 2016 #48
I didn't change the topic I asked what the person who posted it thought about it azurnoir May 2016 #49
i think this pegs saudi arabia but there is no truth about Israel in this piece MariaThinks May 2016 #51
A challenge: let's take the crap claims of this article as if they were true Albertoo May 2016 #55
I don't see them protesting the homophobic filth either King_David May 2016 #57
You are a racist ;) Albertoo May 2016 #58
Medea has actually walked the walk with respect to Saudi Arabia oberliner May 2016 #61
I'd be impressed if she devoted similar energy to beating up China over Tibet. aranthus May 2016 #62
Medea loves the Iranian regime, has been on PRESS-TV an awful lot... shira May 2016 #63
But not activist campus groups like BDS or SJP Albertoo May 2016 #66
This is jaw.dropping poor and.awkward cali May 2016 #64
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